Good topic in an area of interest for me. Hitler had expressed his goal of Lebensraum for the German people long before the invasion of Poland. Expanding east was always the goal. No trigger was needed as one could be invented, and it was. Nixons image was revitalized after Watergate but doing the same for Hitler in a much tougher sell.
France and Britain signed the war guarantee with Poland with the intention of having a war start thinking they could win easily. This policy was designed by Churchill. He lost an empire and failed Europe in a grand style.
Germany did not have the military or economic capacity in 1939 that you suggest. The Wehrmacht was small compared to either Britain or France. Until France, Poland, Czech and other production fell under German control the Wehrmacht was well designed but small.
Ideology is as you suggest, but it was little more than a pipe dream until a number of factors lined up surprisingly.
In his fascist world, I'm absolutely a Marxist, because everybody in his camp thinks that anybody who disagrees with anything that they say is a marxist, communist, socialist, liberal, etc.
Of course, fascists never have enough self-awareness to be able to identify themselves as fascists.
Britain didnt sign a mutual defense pact with Poland until Chuchill insisted in 1939. He sought the pact to create a trigger. Hitler had proposed an alliance with Poland asking only for a Danzig corridor to Germany leaving Poland in charge of Danzig. Danzig and east Prussia were cutoff through versaille oddites.
Poland rejected all negotiations--all. The German requests for Danzig were straitforward:
The sixteen points
By reason of its purely German character and the unanimous will of its population, the Free City of Danzig shall be returned forthwith to the German Reich.
The territory known as the Polish Corridor, that is to say, the territory bounded by the Baltic Sea and a line running from Marienwerder to Graudenz, Kulm, Bromberg, (including these towns), and then in a westerly direction towards Schönlanke, shall itself decide whether it shall become part of the German Reich or remain with Poland.
For that purpose, a plebiscite shall be held in this territory. All Germans who were domiciled in this area on January 1, 1918, or who were born there on or before that day, and also all Poles, Cassubians, etc., who were domiciled in this area on that day or who were born there on or before the above-mentioned date, shall be entitled to vote. Germans who have been expelled from this territory shall return for the purpose of registering their votes.
In order to ensure an impartial plebiscite and to guarantee that the necessary and extensive preparations for the plebiscite shall be carried out correctly, an International Commission like the one formed in connection with the Saar plebiscite, and consisting of members appointed by the four Great Powers, Italy, the U.S.S.R., France and Great Britain, shall be formed immediately, and placed in charge of this territory. This commission shall exercise sovereign rights throughout the territory. To that end, the territory shall be evacuated by the Polish military forces, by the Polish police and by the Polish authorities within the shortest possible time to be agreed upon.
The Polish port of Gdynia to the extent of the Polish settlement is not included in this area, but, as a matter of principle, is recognized as Polish territory.
The details of the boundaries of this Polish port shall be decided on by Germany and Poland, and if necessary established by an International Court of Arbitration.
In order to allow for ample time for the necessary and extensive preparations for the carrying out of an impartial plesbiscite, this plebiscite shall not take place before a period of twelve months has elapsed.
In order that during that period, Germany's lines of communication with East Prussia and Poland's access to the sea may be unrestrict-edly ensured, certain roads and railway lines shall be determined, in order to facilitate unobstructed transit. In this connection only such taxes may be levied as are necessary for the upkeep of the lines of communication and for the carrying out of transport.
The allocation of this territory shall be decided on by the absolute majority of the votes cast.
In order to secure, after the plebiscite (irrespective of the result thereof), Germany's unrestricted communication with the province of Danzig-East Prussia, and Poland's access to the sea, Germany shall, in case the territory be returned to Poland as a result of the plebiscite, be given an extraterritorial traffic zone running from, say, Bütow to Danzig or Dirschau, for the purpose of building a German motor highway (Reichsautobahn) and also a four-track railway line. The construction of the motor road and of the railway shall be carried out in such a manner that Polish lines of communication are not affected thereby, i.e., they are to be overbridged or underbridged. This zone shall be one kilometer in width and shall be German territory.
Should the result of the plebiscite be in favor of Germany, Poland shall have the same rights as Germany would have had, to build an extraterritorial road and railway connection in order to secure her free and unrestricted access to her port of Gdynia.
In the event of the Polish Corridor being returned to the Reich, the latter declares herself prepared to arrange with Poland for an exchange of population, insofar as conditions in the Corridor lend themselves to such an exchange.
Any special rights claimed by Poland within the port of Danzig shall be negotiated on a parity basis in exchange for equal rights for Germany at the Port of Gdynia.
In order to avoid any sense of menace or danger on either side, Danzig and Gdynia shall henceforth have a purely commercial character; i.e., neither of these places shall be provided with means of military defense or fortifications.
The Peninsula of Hela, which according to the result of the plebiscite would be allocated either to Poland or to Germany, shall also be demilitarized in any case.
The German Government, having most serious complaints to make about the treatment of the minority by the Poles, and the Polish Government, considering themselves entitled to raise complaints against Germany, agree to investigate into all complaints about economic and personal damage, as well as other acts of terrorism.
Germany and Poland bind themselves to indemnify the minorities on either side for any economic damages and other wrongs inflicted upon them since 1918; and/or to revoke all expropriations or otherwise to completely indemnify the respective person or persons for these and other encroachments upon economic life.
In order to free the Germans remaining in Poland, as well as the Poles remaining in Germany, from the feeling of being deprived of the benefits of international law, and above all to afford them the certainty of their not being made to take part in actions and in furnishing services of a kind not compatible with their national convictions, Germany and Poland mutually agree to safeguard the rights of their respective minorities by most comprehensive and binding agreements for the purpose of warranting these minorities the preservation, free development and cultivation of their national customs, habits and traditions, to grant them in particular and for that purpose the form of organization considered necessary by them. Both parties undertake not to draft the members of the minority into military service.
In case of an agreement being reached on the basis of these proposals, Germany and Poland declare themselves prepared immediately to order and carry out the demobilization of their respective armed forces.
Any additional measures required to hasten the carrying through of the above agreement shall be mutually agreed upon between Germany and Poland.
Because Hitler showed how valuable his word was time and time again. He always kept his promises.
I agree that Churchill was guily of a lot of things. But is it any different from us water boarding terrorists? Do you seriously believe that Churchill was worse than Hitler?
Love you crunch, but your hatred for Churchill sometimes comes across as being an apologist for Hitler.
Not worse than Hitler, just no better. The British empire was as cruel as anything the NAZI's did. Burma had 3,000,000 deaths from starvation when the British stripped it of food. 600,000 Boer women and children suffered in British concetration camps at Chuchill's enouragement before WWI. Intentional area bombing of civilians (including refugee camps) by Bomber Harris is certainly no better than the holocaust. Britains war crimes are numerous. The US won the war so they wrote the history.
The blockade of Germany for a full year, at Chuchills order as First Loard of the Admiralty, after the end of WW I caused mass starvation, instability and political crisis that devolved into the street militias of the communists that were then battled by Stahlhelm; Stahlhelm later becoming NSDAP.
Americans traditionally loather the crown and Britain's imperial oppression until the idiot Wilson allied us with them in WW I stupidly. Germany was as democratic as England, except thye didn't have 800 years of oppression of Ireland hanging around their neck.
Hitler the victim and Poland agressed upon him? Churchill wanted a "trigger" when Brittan was out-gunned by the Wehrmacht and had to beg the US for lend-lease? "We will fight them on the beaches and on the fields etc," then he turned off the microphone and said "even though we only have beer bottles to throw at them". He expected an invasion, London was bombed, and he wanted a "trigger"?
The Polish rejected the German terms, that the Poles had earlier demanded, for the rail and road corridor to East Prussia. You may not recall that East Prussia was cutoff from Germany through Versaille. Britain and France insisted that Poland deadlock the negotiations in spite of German acceptance of the poles term.
Churchill thought France and Br, would kick the Germans ass.
As an example France expected to prevail easily:
The French army had the equipment and personnel – five million men, more than they had in 1914 – to really take the Germans on. Defence spending had been rising since the mid-1930s, making it possible to bolster the air force, to build a powerful naval fleet, ensure a well-equipped army and to build the Maginot line, a fortified boundary on France’s eastern borders.
So the high command was far from inactive before the war. They had these resources and they created a strategy to use them – small offensives with defined objectives, continuous fronts and the use of firepower to cut off the enemy’s movements.
Churchill confidently sought a war and setup to knock Germany down following any trigger action towards Poland. It was unexpected that Germany cut through Poland so smoothly. And no one expected the blitzkrieg to roll through Paris.
British nobility ran military opperations just because of social status, not competence. One of the reasons we fought a War of Independence. Mountbatten was the prime example. On the other hand, the officer corps suffered the greatest (proportionally) casualty rate in WWI. What if Churchill had not replaced Neville Chamberlain et al?
"The German coalition mobilised its troops much more effectively than the French and invaded northeastern France on 4 August. German forces were superior in numbers, training, and leadership and made more effective use of modern technology, particularly railways and artillery." That and the fact that WWI was faught in France and not Germany, completely destroying hundreds of French villages, the motivations at Versaille are understandable, to try and prevent Germany from attacking France again. After all, we've been discussing intentionalities here.
That phrase referred to the previous Franco-Prussia War (1870s) wherein France invaded Germany.
The true loss to France in the "War to End All Wars" was that units were built regionally. So young men from all the towns of a given area might make a regiment up to a division. So aside from the massive losses of life, certain battles destroyed the lifeblood and fabric of entire towns and villages.
Good topic in an area of interest for me. Hitler had expressed his goal of Lebensraum for the German people long before the invasion of Poland. Expanding east was always the goal. No trigger was needed as one could be invented, and it was. Nixons image was revitalized after Watergate but doing the same for Hitler in a much tougher sell.
"Is Paris burning? "
Yep. Hitler was just misunderstood. He was actually a man of peace. He had all of Europe's best interests in mind.
Britain didnt sign a mutual defense pact with Poland until Chuchill insisted in 1939. He sought the pact to create a trigger. Hitler had proposed an alliance with Poland asking only for a Danzig corridor to Germany leaving Poland in charge of Danzig. Danzig and east Prussia were cutoff through versaille oddites.
Poland rejected all negotiations--all. The German requests for Danzig were straitforward:
The sixteen points
By reason of its purely German character and the unanimous will of its population, the Free City of Danzig shall be returned forthwith to the German Reich.
The territory known as the Polish Corridor, that is to say, the territory bounded by the Baltic Sea and a line running from Marienwerder to Graudenz, Kulm, Bromberg, (including these towns), and then in a westerly direction towards Schönlanke, shall itself decide whether it shall become part of the German Reich or remain with Poland.
For that purpose, a plebiscite shall be held in this territory. All Germans who were domiciled in this area on January 1, 1918, or who were born there on or before that day, and also all Poles, Cassubians, etc., who were domiciled in this area on that day or who were born there on or before the above-mentioned date, shall be entitled to vote. Germans who have been expelled from this territory shall return for the purpose of registering their votes.
In order to ensure an impartial plebiscite and to guarantee that the necessary and extensive preparations for the plebiscite shall be carried out correctly, an International Commission like the one formed in connection with the Saar plebiscite, and consisting of members appointed by the four Great Powers, Italy, the U.S.S.R., France and Great Britain, shall be formed immediately, and placed in charge of this territory. This commission shall exercise sovereign rights throughout the territory. To that end, the territory shall be evacuated by the Polish military forces, by the Polish police and by the Polish authorities within the shortest possible time to be agreed upon.
The Polish port of Gdynia to the extent of the Polish settlement is not included in this area, but, as a matter of principle, is recognized as Polish territory.
The details of the boundaries of this Polish port shall be decided on by Germany and Poland, and if necessary established by an International Court of Arbitration.
In order to allow for ample time for the necessary and extensive preparations for the carrying out of an impartial plesbiscite, this plebiscite shall not take place before a period of twelve months has elapsed.
In order that during that period, Germany's lines of communication with East Prussia and Poland's access to the sea may be unrestrict-edly ensured, certain roads and railway lines shall be determined, in order to facilitate unobstructed transit. In this connection only such taxes may be levied as are necessary for the upkeep of the lines of communication and for the carrying out of transport.
The allocation of this territory shall be decided on by the absolute majority of the votes cast.
In order to secure, after the plebiscite (irrespective of the result thereof), Germany's unrestricted communication with the province of Danzig-East Prussia, and Poland's access to the sea, Germany shall, in case the territory be returned to Poland as a result of the plebiscite, be given an extraterritorial traffic zone running from, say, Bütow to Danzig or Dirschau, for the purpose of building a German motor highway (Reichsautobahn) and also a four-track railway line. The construction of the motor road and of the railway shall be carried out in such a manner that Polish lines of communication are not affected thereby, i.e., they are to be overbridged or underbridged. This zone shall be one kilometer in width and shall be German territory.
Should the result of the plebiscite be in favor of Germany, Poland shall have the same rights as Germany would have had, to build an extraterritorial road and railway connection in order to secure her free and unrestricted access to her port of Gdynia.
In the event of the Polish Corridor being returned to the Reich, the latter declares herself prepared to arrange with Poland for an exchange of population, insofar as conditions in the Corridor lend themselves to such an exchange.
Any special rights claimed by Poland within the port of Danzig shall be negotiated on a parity basis in exchange for equal rights for Germany at the Port of Gdynia.
In order to avoid any sense of menace or danger on either side, Danzig and Gdynia shall henceforth have a purely commercial character; i.e., neither of these places shall be provided with means of military defense or fortifications.
The Peninsula of Hela, which according to the result of the plebiscite would be allocated either to Poland or to Germany, shall also be demilitarized in any case.
The German Government, having most serious complaints to make about the treatment of the minority by the Poles, and the Polish Government, considering themselves entitled to raise complaints against Germany, agree to investigate into all complaints about economic and personal damage, as well as other acts of terrorism.
Germany and Poland bind themselves to indemnify the minorities on either side for any economic damages and other wrongs inflicted upon them since 1918; and/or to revoke all expropriations or otherwise to completely indemnify the respective person or persons for these and other encroachments upon economic life.
In order to free the Germans remaining in Poland, as well as the Poles remaining in Germany, from the feeling of being deprived of the benefits of international law, and above all to afford them the certainty of their not being made to take part in actions and in furnishing services of a kind not compatible with their national convictions, Germany and Poland mutually agree to safeguard the rights of their respective minorities by most comprehensive and binding agreements for the purpose of warranting these minorities the preservation, free development and cultivation of their national customs, habits and traditions, to grant them in particular and for that purpose the form of organization considered necessary by them. Both parties undertake not to draft the members of the minority into military service.
In case of an agreement being reached on the basis of these proposals, Germany and Poland declare themselves prepared immediately to order and carry out the demobilization of their respective armed forces.
Any additional measures required to hasten the carrying through of the above agreement shall be mutually agreed upon between Germany and Poland.
Churchill was a Spencer, relative of princess di. He most certainly was in the noble class, just not very noble.
British nobility ran military opperations just because of social status, not competence. One of the reasons we fought a War of Independence. Mountbatten was the prime example. On the other hand, the officer corps suffered the greatest (proportionally) casualty rate in WWI. What if Churchill had not replaced Neville Chamberlain et al?