Isn’t this an example of a straw man argument????? Lolol Let me explain. I was talking about RW’s playoff/play in game performance last night. Thats the TOPIC.
PS Is this You Waldorf? Yesterday?? Can you help me? Did Westbrook have a Triple D yesterday???
You have to overlook Pasadena’s comments he just doesn’t know better. Anyone can pick out an off night for a player and blow it out of proportion . Russell Westbrook is the second greatest point guard of all time behind only Magic Johnson and that’s by his coach’s own admission.
@Pasadena Trojan Point taken. But at least my strawman argument was about the same sport, and the same athlete.
Honestly, I don't follow the NBA that closely anymore, so I can't comment much on Westbrook's game. But I had heard just the other day about him breaking Robertson's record, and that seemed pretty amazing to me since I consider The Big O one of the greatest players ever.
How would you rate Dan Marino? Ernie Banks? Bruce Smith? Ladainian Tomlinson? How about Tony Gwynn or Ted Williams? Karl Malone? Barry Sanders? Jim Marshall or Alan Page?
btw, I agree with you - mostly - on Westbrook. Empty calories. But I don't think you can only base a player's career on championships. Hell, Ty Cobb never won a title. But hard to argue that he isn't one of the greatest ever to lace up a pair of cleats.
I would say RW is kind of a Warren Moon, except that Moon never got as close to a championship. Maybe more of a Drew Bledsoe or (up until last year) a Dwight Howard.
PS Below you list Steve Nash as an example of a great PG yet he never won a title as a player.
@the909trojan was thinking Dan Marino was a good comp. In terms of individual production. RW has that in spades. So did Marino. But here is the rub. Marino was one of the best passing talents the league ever saw. he was BETTER than others and was a bit revolutionary for the era. Yes he didnt win a SB and he is knocked for it.
I think Steve Nash is a better comp for Marino. Nash also hit that very very high standard. hard to do. 1% ers.
RW is high production but not Elite at any one thing except maybe rebounding. Meeehhhh.
RW for me is this. He’s the NFL league leader in Total points aka a kicker. Lolol
No too Harsh. Maybe Warren Moon is it. all time production type guy. But no rings nor much winning. But a player. A real deal in their sport.
Carson Palmer MayBe? Top 14 all time yards (or TDs). Thats legit.
back to Triple double PR team. They make it seem so amazing. Not sure his team has above a .500 record when he gets another one. And that’s only 5 on 5. smh
@Pasadena Trojan Palmer is a good comp. I don't like Nash because if I had to pick a team hands down I would take Nash in his prime over RW in his. Barry Sanders might be a good one except his teams blew chunks and RW was on a couple of decent teams. Jim Brown couldn't have won a SB on those detroit teams lol.
Thanks for response, I'm actually not busting your bawls here and I think we agree on RW. Good stats but not somebody to build a championship team around. In his defense he is kind of a tweener. Not really a PG but not a shooting guard either. Not exactly a combo guard but I guess a scorer? And he does do that, score.
Turnovers do nullify otherwise great play. That's absolutely true.
When it comes to triple-doubles, points are the only thing that are often overrated. 10, 11, points -- not a bug deal, particularly from a low-percentage shooter who jacks up a lot of shots. But there is nothing overrated about double figures in boards and assists. They are more important in my opinion, in the long run.
I'm not suggesting Westbrook doesn't have other flaws in his game, just saying triple-doubles are nothing to disregard, which I also know you weren't really suggesting.
As for the hours of film study, yeah, I'll pass and take your word for it. I would rather watch grass grow.
@Pasadena Trojan By the way, Nash was the exception to the rule. Most PGs don't average 50% shooting. Nash was a career 49% shooter, which is damned good. John Stockton was a career 50% shooter. Magic Johnson shot 51%, but that's what being 6'8" and being able to play inside can do.
Oscar Robertson was a 48% career shooter. Jerry West 47%. But they didn't shoot 3-pointers either, at least not knowingly. West could have killed it from 3-point land. Mr. Outside.
You gotta admit, Westbrook having more triple-doubles than Oscar Robertson is pretty insane, even if he has no rings.
Isn’t this an example of a straw man argument????? Lolol Let me explain. I was talking about RW’s playoff/play in game performance last night. Thats the TOPIC.
PS Is this You Waldorf? Yesterday?? Can you help me? Did Westbrook have a Triple D yesterday???
You have to overlook Pasadena’s comments he just doesn’t know better. Anyone can pick out an off night for a player and blow it out of proportion . Russell Westbrook is the second greatest point guard of all time behind only Magic Johnson and that’s by his coach’s own admission.
@Pasadena Trojan Point taken. But at least my strawman argument was about the same sport, and the same athlete.
Honestly, I don't follow the NBA that closely anymore, so I can't comment much on Westbrook's game. But I had heard just the other day about him breaking Robertson's record, and that seemed pretty amazing to me since I consider The Big O one of the greatest players ever.
Baaahhhhaaaaaaaaaa!!! said NO ONE ever. Except you.
BTW, my bad for looking at a game where his season is on the line. That’s me being a cherry picker. My bad. Yes this is sarcasm.
westbrook is empty calories. But has a great PR team.
He‘s the equivalent of a high volume NFL passer but who also throws a ton of INTs. 400 yards of passing but he loses by 30.
A 20 game winner in MLB with a 4.50 era.
A 40 home run guy who strikes out 160 times a year.
Triple Double sounds great. So does 20
wins and 400 yards passing.
But it’s not the whole story.
Point of the Game is to win.
Poor shooter. Historically low from 3 point area. Shoots 22-23 shots a game. That’s HIGH volume. From the PG position. That amplifies issue #1 Above.
High TOer guy.
Not an elite passer. Few are but he is a PG.
Everyone wants to talk Triple D’s. It’s an incomplete analysis.
I do respect his effort and tenacity. He doesn’t take a minute off. Thats impressive. He‘s also an Elite athlete and a great finisher.
I just saved you hours of film study.
You‘re welcome.
How would you rate Dan Marino? Ernie Banks? Bruce Smith? Ladainian Tomlinson? How about Tony Gwynn or Ted Williams? Karl Malone? Barry Sanders? Jim Marshall or Alan Page?
btw, I agree with you - mostly - on Westbrook. Empty calories. But I don't think you can only base a player's career on championships. Hell, Ty Cobb never won a title. But hard to argue that he isn't one of the greatest ever to lace up a pair of cleats.
I would say RW is kind of a Warren Moon, except that Moon never got as close to a championship. Maybe more of a Drew Bledsoe or (up until last year) a Dwight Howard.
PS Below you list Steve Nash as an example of a great PG yet he never won a title as a player.
@the909trojan was thinking Dan Marino was a good comp. In terms of individual production. RW has that in spades. So did Marino. But here is the rub. Marino was one of the best passing talents the league ever saw. he was BETTER than others and was a bit revolutionary for the era. Yes he didnt win a SB and he is knocked for it. I think Steve Nash is a better comp for Marino. Nash also hit that very very high standard. hard to do. 1% ers.
RW is high production but not Elite at any one thing except maybe rebounding. Meeehhhh.
RW for me is this. He’s the NFL league leader in Total points aka a kicker. Lolol
No too Harsh. Maybe Warren Moon is it. all time production type guy. But no rings nor much winning. But a player. A real deal in their sport.
Carson Palmer MayBe? Top 14 all time yards (or TDs). Thats legit. back to Triple double PR team. They make it seem so amazing. Not sure his team has above a .500 record when he gets another one. And that’s only 5 on 5. smh
@Pasadena Trojan Palmer is a good comp. I don't like Nash because if I had to pick a team hands down I would take Nash in his prime over RW in his. Barry Sanders might be a good one except his teams blew chunks and RW was on a couple of decent teams. Jim Brown couldn't have won a SB on those detroit teams lol.
Thanks for response, I'm actually not busting your bawls here and I think we agree on RW. Good stats but not somebody to build a championship team around. In his defense he is kind of a tweener. Not really a PG but not a shooting guard either. Not exactly a combo guard but I guess a scorer? And he does do that, score.
Turnovers do nullify otherwise great play. That's absolutely true.
When it comes to triple-doubles, points are the only thing that are often overrated. 10, 11, points -- not a bug deal, particularly from a low-percentage shooter who jacks up a lot of shots. But there is nothing overrated about double figures in boards and assists. They are more important in my opinion, in the long run.
I'm not suggesting Westbrook doesn't have other flaws in his game, just saying triple-doubles are nothing to disregard, which I also know you weren't really suggesting.
As for the hours of film study, yeah, I'll pass and take your word for it. I would rather watch grass grow.
.50/.90/.40 is the Real Triple Double
Steve Nash lived here.
Steph Curry did it this year. RW is NO WHERE near this.
For a PG I would rather have him getting more assists then rebounds. He‘s an elite rebounder for the PG position.
He’s below average as an assist guy.
I think Steve Nash proved this ”theory“ out. Won at a much better clip being a pass first PG + elite passer than Westbrook Has.
@Pasadena Trojan Sorry, brainfart...what exactly do you mean by those percentages?
@Pasadena Trojan By the way, Nash was the exception to the rule. Most PGs don't average 50% shooting. Nash was a career 49% shooter, which is damned good. John Stockton was a career 50% shooter. Magic Johnson shot 51%, but that's what being 6'8" and being able to play inside can do.
Oscar Robertson was a 48% career shooter. Jerry West 47%. But they didn't shoot 3-pointers either, at least not knowingly. West could have killed it from 3-point land. Mr. Outside.
@Waldorf and don’t call me Brainfart lol
2FG % FT %
3FG %
@Pasadena Trojan Yeah, I figured that out right after I posted. Duh.
Passing/Assists are the most important aspect of being a PG, but a low FG% does hurt, i.e. nullify that. Rebounds are icing on the cake.
RW is at 43% (2 pointers) & 30% (3 pointers).
@Pasadena Trojan Yeah, not so good. That means too many missed opportunities for other higher percentage inside guys to score.
I still think the 3-pointer hurt the game more than it helped it.
Good take. Very.
ps RW’s teammates agree with you. Yes That was a joke!